The three layers of Hades were called glooms for good reason; they were realms devoid of emotion, hope, and peace. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. There is BTW no clear verse saying that the kingdom would have an end, many things that speak against it. I am disturbed by the anger and name-calling of the resident I am sure he will give the usual excuses. Gehenna was not a perpetually burning trash dump." . No one. Kolasin has as it's root meaning "to prune" something away or remove it in order to IMPROVE it. One should also remember that archeology developers it's conclusions from the remains of history and of necessity because of the often small amount found makes wrong conclusions. Mark 9:45. Gregory of Nyssa, another prominent teacher of universalism, drafted the part of the Nicean creed dealing with the trinity. This view is frequently debated, as there exists little evidence to confirm the existence of. Hell, detail in Pieter Bruegel the Elder's Dull Griet, 1561 . He got into trouble with a lot of people over many things, but one area of his teaching was never assailed by any church council and that was his teaching on universal salvation.". A Christian in error is still a Christian.]. All of the trash, refuse, and dung from the city was dumped out there. But there isn't evidence to support this idea. Words can indeed mean different things at different times, with different context and different people. In fact, near as anyone can tell, the earliest mention we have of this theory comes a Rabbi named David Kimhi who wrote a commentary on Psalm 27 in the 13th Century. ", No one. Which brings us back to our starting point: it is eternal for good and bad or age-enduring for both, not this for one and that for another.]. Is that decree retroactive?". Rather than restate much that has been said before, let me just point you and any interested readers to a couple of articles on the issue of eternal punishment (which was not the subject of this post). And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. THE LAST ENEMY TO BE DESTROYED IS DEATH! One of the immediate problems of any hermeneutics about Gehenna is the religious . The first post-apostolic council at Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a universalist. He does not tell us where he got that information from and that is all we hear of it. In Israel's past, it was used as a place of child sacrifice. So you call someone "empty-headed" and get to face the Sanhedrin or similar council, but call someone "impious fool" and you get eternal worms and fire in Gehenna? If the trash dump was burning or not - I don't know. The "ravine of hinnom" (Gehenna) was the city garbage dump in Jerusalem where the garbage was burned. Isa 66:2224 As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the LORD, so will your name and descendants endure. What has that got to do with it. "With the common sense which often characterizes Jewish commentators, Kimchi says that the place was the dump of the city, where fires were always kept burning to destroy the refuse . The restoration of these cities is tied to the PEOPLE that lived there in 16:55. And it is obviously contradicting the parable to consider what could happen after the feast for if the kingdom is like that feast and there would be an afterwards, it would no longer be eternal. But if they happened to return next week, would that mean that sinners from Sodom would not be punished for their sins? According to the Jewish scholar David Kimhi (c. 1160-c. 1235 C.E. But that statement says nothing about God no longer being God after the ages. Does no one know about the millennium, a period of teaching, after which satan is loosed for a season to test those that followed him in the first earth age. Hades, the Gray Waste of NE Gehenna, the Bleak Eternity of NE, LE The Nine Hells (of Baator) LE Acheron, the Infinite Battlefield of LN, LE Mechanus, the Clockwork Nirvana of LN Arcadia, the. The three parables you mention also do not say how long the consequences for failure last or whether there is anything else to take place afterward. In the other dozen or so, to get the idea of "eternal" you have to read it into the words "aion" and "aionian". [2] The valley is also known by the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm, lit. She offers the following highly imaginative description of this burning refuse heap, which serves as a nice, detailed amalgamation of all the descriptions Ive heard of it over the years. But no matter what they eat, do not die, THEY LEAVE WHAT THEY ARE EATING TO BECOME A FLY OR MOTH. "Saint" doesn't mean infallible, you know! 1 [1841], 404-5). "The God of the Eons" is a statement of fact, not of limitation. "For your sister Sodom was not a byword in your mouth in the days of your pride, "before your wickedness was uncovered. Calling God "The God of the ages" (aions) is stating a fact, God is God over the ages. It is a reasonable deduction that there would be a dump and also reasonable that sometimes it would be alite and bodies throw there for shame. Obviously, this fire is not still burning today, so this fire had an "age to come" or better put a "forever result" quality to it vs. a duration quality to it. Jude says Sodom and Gomorrah undergo vengeance in "eternal fire", and Ezekiel says that Sodom and her daughters will one day be restored to their former estate. My time, unfortunately, is limited too. One question to ask about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus Why the need for a gulf to keep those in Abraham's bosom from going to the other side where there was torment? And as you know from experience, a dump without flies is a dump without garbage. This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a . The three offenses are being angry without a cause, calling someone 'raca', and calling someone 'fool'. Rome? We are not all doomed as so many believe. Isaiah 66:15-16 makes it pretty clear when the context of the rest of the chapter takes place. [What has that got to do with it. What does a 2000-year-old garbage dump have to do with us, in modern America? Regarding individuals, councils excommunicated those that refused to accept a definition reached (or for crimes i.e. As a conditionalist, it's so nice to be able to just let the Bible speak plainly on these topics and be true to sound exegesis vs. imposing a strained interpretation to produce a desired doctrinal end (universalism or eternal torment in my opinion). Are you serious? This article is more additional proof against the doctrine of eternal torment. It was a fire that burned forever, where the worm did not die and where people went to throw their trash, grimacing from the stench, gritting their teeth in revulsion, never venturing too close for fear of falling into the abhorrent abyss. Case in point, Jude 1:7 it says that Sodom and Gomorrah served as example of those who will suffer the punishment of "eternal fire". In Jesus' day, it was once again the city's garbage dump, where a fire was always burning to consume anything thrown on the pile ( Mark 9:43-48 ). Explore the mistranslations and actual meanings of eternal and hell (aion, gehenna/hades/tartaroo/sheol). And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. Now I know why I never found any. Why should anyone want to go out when God and all his people and everything good is inside. Then he quotes Peter Head, G. R. Beasley-Murray, and Lloyd Bailey in tracing the origin of this notion to Rabbi David Kimchi in AD 1200. "Worms" in Isaiah 66:24 is towlah, and Gesenius notes that this word is especially used to denote worms that feed on FLESH, although it is also used to talk about worms in bread and the worm that killed Jonah's shade plant. If they contradict e.o., they contradict e.o. After the ages, there will be no need to describe Him to anyone because all will know Him fully, just as they also are known by Him now. 7:32-33). The gate leading to it was called the dung gate, which meant trash as well as animal excrement. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Dig down into and youll find evidence if garbage, followed by a ruined temple and burnt child sacrifices. But just as soon as Josiah died, the Jews returned to Tophet. PDF. You brought up a very good point. He does not cast off forever. When death is destroyed the only thing left is life. Indeed, there is no reason to search further for ancient burning piles of discarded newspapers, product packaging, and junk mail. Romans 5:18-21 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 60. Worms and fire normally die and go out (no need for nitpicking about how going out is not being quenched) this is why Jesus raises the point that these worms and this fire (which is obviously figurative language) do NOT DIE and do NOT GO OUT. And why should it? You clearly havened thought the whole matter through and would trade in salvation for 20th century sensibilities. In Biblical times, this place was occupied by Western Semitic pagans people who worshiped deities different from YHWH, such as Molech. In v.15-16 it seems pretty clear the context of this passage is a universal judgment on all flesh. The interpretive contortions the universalists and eternal tormenters engaged in made my head hurt! God is not a torturer. This is getting silly! Why should anyone want to go out when God and all his people and everything good is inside.]. But you making another mistake: so seem to think that if Jude and Ezekiel contradicted each other, such a contradiction could be solved by your screwed universalist theology. "You have paid for your lewdness and your abominations, says the Lord. I find it much easier to explain passages such as Matthew 25:46 in light of the above verses. And he mentions those who would go from where he himself was to the other side where the torment was FIRST. Rubbish, bones, decaying. Councils made positive definition of faith (e.g. Rev. For example, eternal salvation doesn't mean God is saving us daily (rather an eternal result of a one time event) just as eternal judgment not mean God is tormenting the lost daily, rather the one time event (the second death) had eternal result as well. Salvation does not have to be eternal. The Greek word gehenna is found 12 times in our New Testament ScripturesJesus used the term 11 times, and James used it one time. One of the strange things about all of the talk about whether punishment is eternal or not is the fact that if the Lord had wanted to communicate the idea that punishment would be eternal, there are several ways to do this in Greek and make it crystal clear. A longer one, written by Sinclair Ferguson: Universalism and The Reality of Eternal Punishment: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of Eternal Punishment. The objection that "eternal punishment" and "eternal life" are used in parallel in Matthew 25:46, and therefore aionian must means eternal is based on a false presumption that the "aionian life" which is spoken of would have to come to an end at the same time that the "aionian" punishment does. if you use the NIV version of the Bible the words "and shut out" are not in the Greek, rather just the preposition "from"). Yes, that Origen took the idea of universal salvation to its extreme (though it is unclear how far he actually believed this to be factual or whether he was simply engaging in an experiment of thought) and it was this extreme form that was shocking to many Christians. As for the lost, per words of Jesus and apostles, they will die (wages of sin)/be destroyed/perish. The doors were certainly locked as long as the wedding feast endures. And just like all garbage dumps, there were worms. I like how you responded to the (?I guess they are unbelievers) in the comments. And as far as Rabbi Kimhi goes, note that even he stated the alleged dump of Gehenna became an analogy for the judgment of the wicked, which demonstrates that even the first writer to make this connection saw it to be an analogy for the place that the wicked will be judged. It might have been just as well to not press it. The reason they didn't die out was because there was a constant supply of refuge being fed them. Isaiah closes his book with these words: Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. I am talking about the entire early Church, which did not adhere to your universal salvation theology. But you are faking compassion you don't want the damned to suffer but have no problem with seeing them dead. The quotation begins in verse 22. Rome? The first results in being in danger of the "judgement". dumpsite, rubbish dump, trash dump, wasteyard, waste-yard, dump. Gray land and gray sky throughout, with no sun . But "the flesh" has nothing to dod with worms and fire. The second results in being in danger of the council, and the third results in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Mk. Even if they are used to describe God as "the aionian God" they do not have to mean eternal. The "captivity". We seem to just read right past those verses. the creed), negative condemnations ("Whosover says . 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Has nothing to dod with worms and fire made my head hurt to sin, pluck it out by! Of any hermeneutics about Gehenna is the religious mentions Gehenna also spoke of the fire of Gehenna excommunicated that... The aionian God '' they do not die, they LEAVE what they eat, do die. Those that refused to accept a definition reached ( or for crimes i.e ready for the Party. Burning trash dump. & quot ; God '' they do not die, they LEAVE what they eat, not. Gehenna/Hades/Tartaroo/Sheol ) the God of the chapter takes place the context of the chapter takes place your universal salvation.! Definition reached ( or for crimes i.e constant supply of refuge being fed them only thing left life... A ruined temple and burnt child sacrifices happened to return next week, would that mean sinners.
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